Suggest Rules Changes/Restrictions Here!

[redshirt]

What would you like to see changed about the Mystical Empire rules? What cards should receive errata, be restricted or banned?

FWIW, I would propose the following:

1. Rule change: Like characters, creatures may only use up to one of their actions a turn to attack.

The reason I suggest this is a) to eliminate the Goblin Archers "combo" in which a Goblin Archers enhanced by Vorex, Declaration of War, Battlemonger or the like can attack for almost lethal damage by itself in one turn. It's not good for the game where an unsuspecting player gets hit for 5-10 damage on turn 2. Yes, if they are smart they will leave a character action available to block and kill the Archers, but why turn off newbies? Despite Goblin Archers being a common, a lot of people will not necessarily be familiar with them or even realize they have five actions.

and b) It makes more sense (to me, anyways) within the logic of the game. I mean, if Glye Rivendale (don't you know who he is? He's Glye!) can only attack once per turn, why should some random goblin be able to attack five times? If a character or creature can only block/defend once a turn regardless of how many actions it has, why should a creature be able to attack multiple times? The other way to be consistent would be to allow characters to use as many of their actions to attack or defend, but I'm pretty sure no one wants to go there. (except for Glye and Sutraps).

2. I would propose restricting Heat Wave to an Ultra Rare.

a) On its own, it seems a balanced card. But in the wizard deck it is pretty unfair because with Tranquil Touch, the wizard deck can easily break its symmetry so that Heat Wave is lethal for the opponent and leaves its character standing.

b) Two burn spells + Heat Wave = good game against a lot of characters, and can be executed fairly quickly.

c) Heat Wave can result in the Wizard deck drawing matches in which they had a clearly losing position and have no business drawing.

d) For most practical purposes, Heat Wave effectively is the same card as Cataclysm, which is an Ultra-Rare. (Yes, Cataclysm out-and-out destroys creatures, items and structures. But that part doesn't matter when one of the players is already dead. Not to mention that HW is easier to cast.)

3. I would propose outright banning Thoughtful Study.

The card is just fundamentally unfair. In a dedicated Wizard deck, roughly half the cards should be spells. So effectively, the card says, "You get to keep roughly five spells, give or take." Being able to gain five cards for the price of one is about the best deal I've ever heard of in any card game. (Technically, you might already have items/creatures/structures in hand to discard, so it might be more like 5 for 2 or 3. Of course, you should just wait to cast TS until after you've played those cards.)

To make a comparision to Magic, it's even better than Ancestral Recall, and we all know that Ancestral Recall is broken. And it's not just better because you get to draw more cards (which you generally do). You are guaranteed top quality cards. If you cast Ancestral Recall, you could just get a land and two cards that don't make a difference in the game.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Discuss, or add other changes you might want to see.

[synergy]

all of those points seem unreasonable to do. thoughtful study is OK, if that.

goblin archers is OK but i dont have trouble with any of my decks ive made. LEAVE ONE ACTION OPEN WITH ANYTHING

and as for heatwave. its good but it hurts u equally so i dont see it as unfair yet.

[Deleted]

Hey...psst...fellow Windy...Stop trying to get my deck banned until after the Mega-Faceoff. Nobody on the forums seems to think it's that good, either the Heat Wave or the Thoughtful Study. So when I give my deck to one of the boys and they steal the show, I'm sure more people might agree with you then.

And I also don't think that the Goblin Archers is out of hand. Certainly not enough to restrict multiple attacks by creatures. If anything, The Archers get restricted somehow...if that.

Sorry Redshirt. I know we Windies should stick together, but I just don't see the Sithmasters going for this.

I'll dig it if they do though.

[sobrokenjay]

im not gunna lie i didnt read all this babling, it was just the continuous crying about goblin archers that caught my eye, only 1 action per turn to attack.... so u want goblin archer to use 4 actions to play spells or touch himself??? kinda defeats ne and all purpose of the 5 action thing dude, i wish ud akk stop whining about it and just use it urself

[redshirt]

^You could still use the Archers to add Archery Tokens and remove Archery tokens. A typical turn could be:

1st action: Attack. Take one damage.
2nd action: Put an Archery token on. Take one damage.
3rd action: Put an Archery token on. Take one damage.
4th action: Remove an Archery token to deal 1 damage to a random target that your opponent controls. Take one damage.
5th action: Remove an Archery token deal one damage to a random target that your opponent. Take one damage.

It's not broken, but it's not weak either. It would often be worth five damage for such a turn, I think.

I also think that probably is more in line with what Keith and Dave must have originally intended for the card when they created it and made it a common. But they of course can speak to that if they wish and take or leave any suggestions you or I or anyone else might make.

[Deleted]

I started a thread to further discuss the Archers. I hated doing so because I know there's been a lot of talk already, but I think this kid has to go to bed some time.

Personally, I do think what Redshirt is saying about the original intent or purpose of the card is on the money. However, I don't really think it's out of control. In fact, as good as it is, and I know it is, I'm not too sure it's metagame defining or even an aggro staple.

[kevmo]

I dont think the goblin archer combo should be eliminated it is another piece to all of decks that makes them great but i do think the number of GA's should be limited.

As for heat wave you need so many components to make it happen its not worth restricting plus it is not like cataclysm it only havles life rounded up. most creatures health is 1 or 2 anyway. Besides you can play tranquil touch in any deck.

I dont even need to talk about thoughtful study.

It sounds like you dont like wizard decks redshirt or lose to them often, the fact is a good aggro Glye or sutraps deck gives all kinds of probs for wizards so if you hate them that much then build a deck to stop it or play wizards yourself.

And to reply to jay i have played GA's and know how powerful they can be which is why i think they should be restricted not changed. see my post on Goblin Archer Fiasco

[spiller]

I will make a brief comment on all 3 points.
1. One attack per creature, per turn.
Keep the ruling as is. The problem isn't with multiple attacks, but one certain card. Fix Goblin Archers and you don't have an issue with other multiple attacks. (oh, and hope they stop printing cards with so many actions as a common LOL).
2. Heat Wave made into an Ultra-Rare.
Heat Wave does seem to be very powerful for it's casting cost. It hasn't yet proven to be the dominant deck type...emphasis on the yet. Q proved it's power in the Chicago area regional. It does deserved to be watched but no action required as of yet. I would also rather see it moved to a rare instead of being jumped right into an ultra rare to see if that fixes it. I have taken Q's deck and made some minor tweaks to it. It has become one of my best decks and I still haven't found a deck that beats it reliably.
3. Thoughtful study being banned.
This is another card that people underestimate and it deserved to be watched. I don't think it has proven itself so powerful to be banned. Keep an eye on it, limit it if neccesary, but don't just outright ban a card. I don't think it has even proved itself so powerful to even be restricted. If every deck in each regional wins with this card, then look at how to fix it. I do agree it is a GREAT card. Then again, so is Cranial Leech and nobody is calling for that to be banned.

[sobrokenjay]

now i dont want ne of u to take the following statement in the rong way so plz dont lol, now i cood be considered nuthing but a rookie to some of u players out there but i have dun alot of deck making, strategizing tourny playing and a feces load of play testing, and ive played against every combo and card that u guys r trying to change and i also feel that everyone from the new england area that ive been playing with and against for the past months will agree with me when i say that dealing with these combos and cards isnt exactlly brain surgery for every combo theres a counter think of it and use it , ive been put in many situations against all of these and they r all beat able if u play rite..... and i cood give examples but y wood i wanna tell u guys how to beat my deck ??

[Deleted]

Jay, I agree with you completely, yet, I'm not sure you're grasping the concept.

Assuredly, there will always be an answer to any one thing, combo, card, etc. I don't believe anything to be unbeatable, in this game or any other, in the present or in the past.

That being said, it isn't hardly the point. The point is really the impact a card or group of cards could have on a game, with the concern is if that impact is a negative strain or not.

I have already said that I don't expect GA to be out of control, or Heat Wave or Thoughtful Study. But I could be wrong. I'm with Spiller on this one. If we all show up to the Faceoff, and any one card or deck style composes of 50% or more of the field, that's a problem. All of the cards we are discussing are potential candidates of abuse.

Then again, so are Tempo Ring and Bibliotheque.

Leave the game be for now. No one thing has proven dominant in all areas of the country. But if one deck type is showing to be top 3 in every Regional til the Faceoff, that's a telltale sign.

[sobrokenjay]

see that is a better way of looking at it....leave it be for now and wut happens lol i like that

[Deleted]

Yea, I'm sure it'll give you just enough time to home brew some brokeness of yours and steal your Regional with it. By the time the Sithmasters react, you will have unseeded the 2 ahead of you.

[Arashi]

So, Jay is going to unseed Blaine and I huh? Well, Thats not what I heard. I was aware that I was going to take that tourney. ;D A little "home brewed brokenness" isn't enough to stop me. I will have ways around his speedy goblin archers...just you wait and see. ;D I look forward to everyone putting up a good fight though.

[kevmo]

I honestly dont think that any of this discussion should be in this forum and should be in the mega team forum we have done a poor job of discretion in the public forum. Lets keep in mind newcomers are checking out this area and we dont want to discourage with our discussions. I myself am included when i speak of this.

[Deleted]

kevmo said:

I honestly dont think that any of this discussion should be in this forum and should be in the mega team forum we have done a poor job of discretion in the public forum. Lets keep in mind newcomers are checking out this area and we dont want to discourage with our discussions. I myself am included when i speak of this.

Whoa, buddy! Peace!

Last I heard, the Mega Forums will soon be changed to "View Only" and all talk will be in the public forums.

That being said, I think all of our communication must be maintained. I believe I speak for most of us when I say that the game is being molded from right here. You get to see all those top players interact with the game at it's highest level, while players like you and me (or maybe just me) can at least be the audience and maybe speak up once in a while. I think it's important to hear everyone's opinion. In fact, it's allowed for you to express yours, don't you think?

Nevertheless, you do have a point in that our recent activity might be daunting to newbies trying to read these forums. Maybe we should relegate all these rules talks and debates to a separate category specifically designed for this, which could still be hosted at this website and leave the "General" forum for lighter conversation. Or vice versa, and have a separate forum for fun stuff. I'm just not sure how to start that trend myself though, as it will affect everyone currently active. I hear you though.