Angels

[spiller]

It is funny that in order to play angels you need to play Grimus and not Sainthearth.

[kevmo]

I do believe angels are playable with saintheath if grimus was dealt with. But we run into problems because if grimus couldnt hire all these creatures that are out than everyone would start using saintheath because it would be the only way to raise loyalty. Oh wait there are Structures that raise loyalty. What an idea you take away the nastiness of Grimus and slow the game down. ...My sarcasm is getting thick I know.... But I really am tired of talking about Grimus. Can we just make him only give undead creatures false loyalty already? And even the playing field out there. This game is so great and there are so many good cards (LIke Angels) but why print all these cards if ppl are only gonna use a small portion.

[Keith Katsikas]

"Can we just make him (Grimus) give only undead creatures false loyalty?"

This is the first (and only, really) comment I have found worth replying too regarding this subject. I will discuss this option with the R&D team and bounce it around some key players. I like the idea, personally.

[kevmo]

Thank you Keith I apologize for just ranting about Grimus without coming up with a solution or idea for fixing I will take note of this in my future comments.

[spiller]

It does seem like a possible fix to the Grimus issue.
"Grimus gives all undead False loyalty. All non-undead creatures must make a loyalty check during their loyalty phase."
"Creatures do not damage Grimus when they abandon."
It would still allow you to take the chance of playing high loyalty creatures. It would also open up the different deck styles. Future sets wouldn't have to be as concerned of new cards that are broken when played with Grimus (guardian angel for example).
I realize this would change the current environment dramiticly but seems like a legitimate fix. I like the idea of opening up the environment to a more varied list of decks.

[synergy]

why would u change that. then all grimus decks BLOWWWWWWWW!!!!!

[Arashi]

How can you guys be saying that only a small portion of cards are being used with Grimus the way he is now. Grimus is the one(maybe Sainthea as well) card that actually allows the great diversity of cards to be played. I have seen so many different deck builds with Grimus. He IS NOT overly powerful. Do you people not see his weaknesses. I can think of quite a few deck builds off the top of my head that can CRUSH most Grimus deck builds. Without his abilities the way they are, Grimus will probably become one of, if not THE worst character. If not being able to have control over creatures then what else does he have? Oh yeah, a nice hearty 10 health and 1 power! He is NOTHING on his own. without creature advantage, Grimus is useless. Grimus is good right now, yes, but not the absolute best. Have you seen what other people have done with other characters? It's possible to use quite a few of the others special abilities and do INSANE things with them. Take Synergy's old deck for example. He used Lord Zycon and usually crushed anyone he faced. Why don't you guys try building some decks around other characters and focus less on weakening Grimus. I am SURE that you can find some VERY good decks with a character other than Grimus.

Please do not change Grimus or I am sure that many of the cards in this game will NEVER see play because no one will be able to play them.

[spiller]

There is no mana/energy that restricts what can be played in what deck. Loyalty is the only restricting aspect on what creatures you can play. Most of the awesome creatures have very high loyalty or 0 loyalty. It seems that the game is designed in such a way that you need to build your loyalty through items, structures, etc in order to play those cards (like how the guild allows you to play Frost sorceress). Grimus removes that aspect COMPLETELY. Arashi even found a creative way to avoid the angel's restrictions with Pathfinder.
Will the change hurt the current Grimus decks..yes. Maybe new decks will become viable. The Zyconcontrol deck that you created will probably be the dominant deck. I do have some ideas for decks that will be playable if the grimus deck is no longer viable. I am not sure it can compete with Zycon but at least it will have a fighting chance.
I trust that Keith will make a decision that is best for the game. If he keeps it as is, I will play a deck (probably using Grimus). If he decides to change it, I will work on a new deck. I personally think that change would be good for the game.

[spiller]

Arashi, I agree that Grimus allowed you to play with a great diversity of cards. That is the problem. I think if he was restricted then people would find NEW ways to play them such as structures or other characters. Grimus has the negative of only 10 health. I personally find that his positives VASTLY outweigh that one negative.

[kevmo]

I agree that the game will change but diversity is hardly the case of the environment. Grimus supersedes all laws of the loyalty game and if Grimus stays the same I will have to build a deck using him because how else do you stop a deck that can play every powerful creature on FIRST TURN. Structures were designed to build loyalty and I believe everyone would like to be able to add them to a deck. There are a lot of powerful unruly combos right now in the environment. And with changing one card that helps even the ring on Vorex, the lockdown combo, the unlimited draw combo, the u cant damage my creature combo, the unlimited random discard nasty, and every card with a high loyalty cost for a reason should prove that one card that makes all these possible is too powerful. All these combos can still be played it will just take a little more engineering like the game was I think designed to be. Not played in the first 2 turns. I hope you can understand my point, I dont mean to hurt the game i hope to better the diversity.

[synergy]

arasia (from what i remmber is chis norton) has lost to me several times with my zycon deck. there is nothing brokn bout grimus. AT ALLL!!

[Arashi]

I very much agree with you Synergy. Grimus decks can be powerful, but it is NOT the end-all deck. You even said yourself, spiller, that a proper Glye deck stands a pretty good chance against a grimus deck because he is so physically weak. Try a properly built Thandore deck such as the one I posted, and put that against the Grimus. Most likely Thandore should be able to hold it's own against Grimus. A couple of quick hits on him and he is done. Something that Synergy said a while a go made a lot of sense. "Everything beats everything." This is VERY true. If you guys can't find answers to dealing with Grimus decks then mabye you are just using the wrong deck builds. Seriously, try building some fast decks and see how they fare against a Grimus deck. I'm not saying that it will beat Grimus every time, but it will be able to beat it a fair amount of times.

I even talked to Dave at the last tourney about the recent tellings of Grimus being broken and he said to me that Grimus is FAR from being broken, and he knows my deck VERY well.

[Fungus]

Grimus is not broken, yes he can play any creature but he can be killed faster then he can play them.

[Keith Katsikas]

I don't believe Grimus is broken. Never did. However, it does make the use of other creatures less desirable in some ways.

[Arashi]

Yes, some cards are less desirable to use than others. However, it's not Grimus that is making them less desirable. Using any character, the player is going to want to put the best cards in their deck to make it better. Not every card is equal in playability and just overall goodness. You can't expect EVERY single card you make to hit play because of that reason. Since Grimus let's you use any other creature in combination with the weaker ones, sometimes combos are born. Take pathfinder for instance. Overall a pretty weak card and it's special ability isn't that useful in some situations, but using this weaker card in combination with something powerful such as the guardian angel makes that card that much more desirable to use. This brings on the whole aspect of combos and and having the cards special abilities work together to create something better than what it originally was.

Anyway this is my opinion. Isn't the whole point of a CCG to formulate a strategy and implement it as fast as you can?