Orb of Chaos

[Keith Katsikas]

193
Orb of Chaos
Effect
Global

All Creatures in Play have Zero Loyalty.
8
0
4
8
3
Michael Waters
UR

[kevmo]

How would this work if I had Grimus would my creatures still have false loyalty, i know they wouldnt take dmg but I am wondering which efffct takes precidence Grimus or the Orb

[Keith Katsikas]

False Loyalty will prevail here.

[plmrelm]

Characters description overrules any attachments?

[Deleted]

Not necessarily. This is a case of how Loyalty breaks down. In most or all cases I can think of...

True Loyalty prevails over False Loyalty
False Loyalty prevails over "numbered" Loyalty.

So you see, Grimus would prevail in your example. But in a different example, say Grimus hiring a Sworn Defender, the Defender would retain its True Loyalty and thus never abandon Grimus. Here, the Creature prevails.

Next Case.

[tirus]

I think it's better if you explain the reasoning behind the false loyalty beating "Zero loyalty' effects.

Is it something like the zero loyalty effects are essentially changing the loyalty on the card? So it'd be like Grimus controlling dark knight?

[spiller]

The reasoning behind the loyalty heirarchy is for clarity. True Loyalty overrides all other loyalty, False Loyalty overrides any numbered loyalty. Simple as that.

[cadrac]

And here I was thinking that True Loyalty (since its definition doesn't actually say anything about the Creature's Loyalty score) only affected how creatues acted, causing them to disregard how they would normally act due to their loyalty numbers and the Character's Leadership. (False Loyalty, on the other hand specifically changes the Loyalty score of the affected Creature.) Does this mean, therefore, that any creatures with True Loyalty would be completely unaffected by the Orb of Chaos, and thus would deal damage as normal to Grimus even if he was maintaining a Dark Tower? Because it is not obvious that just because True "prevails" over numbered Loyalty that the numbered Loyalty isn't still there. And if it is, then, while how a creature acts is dictated by the highest form of Loyalty the Creature has, it could still be a Creature with 0 Loyalty. Otherwise, the definition of True Loyalty should be altered to explicitly state that Creatures with True Loyalty have a Loyalty score of infinity (as the Creatures who inherantly have True Loyalty do).

Also, the definitions of True Loyalty and False Loyalty should include text to explicitly state the heirarchy. That is True Loyalty should state that it takes precedence over False Loyalty and any other alterations to the Creature's Loyalty score and False Loyalty should state that it takes precedence over any alteration to the Loyalty score other than that caused by True Loyalty.

[cadrac]

As an example of the way it seems to me the definitions of Loyalty currently exist, if you were using Glye Rivendale as your Character and were maintaining a Fortress, all Warriors under your control would have Loyalty equal to your Leadership due to False Loyalty, but would never abandon due to True Loyalty.

[Keith Katsikas]

You have valid points here that I will address in the soon coming revision to the rulebook.

[cadrac]

admin said:

You have valid points here that I will address in the soon coming revision to the rulebook.

Then I will sit back and continue eagerly awaiting the revision.