City Wall

[Keith Katsikas]

123
City Wall
Structure
Wall

60
All other Structures your Character, Creatures, Items, and Effects, cannot be Targeted by any Characters or Creatures outside of L.O.S.
All Creatures you control and your Character are behind City Wall and cannot Block or Defend against Attacks made on City Wall.
H=6, T=0

0
Rafal Hrynkiewicz
UR

[Deleted]

Hi! I know we have been going back and forth on this card, but someone just pointed this out the other day and it seems I may have overlooked it.

This card only says it moves Creatures and Character BEHIND the wall...does that mean that if I have a local or global effect, another structure, or floating item it is not protected by City Wall, meaning that the Wall doesn't make them be out of LOS?

I know the card says that everything can't be targeted from out of LOS, but what is making everything not attached to a creature out of LOS?

[Keith Katsikas]

The second part of text on the card is simply explaining that all of your creatures and character cannot attack or defend from behind the wall. It was put there because people didn't understand that when we were playtesting it.

[Rated R ME Star]

hey wait a sec..im a little lost on this one..city wall does not say anywhere on the card that all structures are behind city wall..only creatures and characters...so if thats the case the agruments about this card are greatly reduced to only one question....what happens if i have a creature in a school of archery and have a city wall out??..

[Keith Katsikas]

The city wall protects everything on your side of the table. It doesn't actually state that everything is behind the wall, but it is. The second part of text was put there as an after though because playtesters didn't understand that creatures and characters couldn't attack or block from behind that wall. I guess now, I should have put the text: All other structures, Items, Effects, Creatures, and your Character are behind City Wall.

[Rated R ME Star]

that is gonna need errata then becuase any judge who rules on this card is gonna say it only says creatures and character....so if thats the case the only problem would be the headaches caused by a double city wall, as unlikely as it would be, would cause and untagetable attack lock according the wording of the card..im not sure where u want to take this one but my answer would be to have city wall say you can only control one city wall...no headaches just in case!!!

[Keith Katsikas]

Rule:

You can only control one City Wall. If ever there are two City Walls under your control, the preexisting City Wall gets discarded.

[Deleted]

Ok, I think I got it now. I've been retarded about this the whole time. I was starting to think the way Rated R was, but I think I see where Keith was coming from the whole time.

Ok, it's true that the card itself doesn't say that everything is behind it. But...since we know that everything normally would be in LOS, and when City Wall comes into play, the first line of text says...

"All other Structures your Character, Creatures, Items, and Effects, cannot be Targeted by any Characters or Creatures outside of L.O.S."

...then it is fully within the perogative of the head judge to rule that the first line of text can indeed infer that all the permanents mentioned are in fact behind the city wall.

The second line of text can realistically be ignored.

I do then agree with that rule about only being able to control one City Wall, as not often as that would ever come up. The language would just be too confusing otherwise.

[Deleted]

So Keith...is the rule to be posted or what?

However, at least I don't think it's necessary to errata the card or anything. Thanks again for being so cool.

[sojomojo]

Ok why can you only control one? How is this so confusing? If this is the case then you need to errata it otherwise the following will be questioned: can you only control one Trade Agreement, one Tower of the heavens, or even only one of any ultra rare? If this is just for City Wall's case then it needs to be stated so. Otherwise it will be more confusing to think that people could argue and reference this as an example of why you may not control more than one ultra rare at one time.

Sojo out!

[spiller]

I am with Sojo on this. I would rather see a definitive answer on what happens if the extremely rare occurance that somehow you do control 2 City Walls. This is more of a rules interpretation than a card that needs errata.

[Keith Katsikas]

My official ruling on the card text itself, without errata, is that the city walls protect eachother. So in the ultra, ULRTA rare case this should happen, the player who pulls it off would most certainly win, so long as the opponent doesn't have some way to destroy at least one of the walls without targeting it with a character or creature, like with earthquakes and such.

[Janus]

okay so i havent been a member long but i've tried to keep up on this City Wall situation.

so we're going back in time and saying that the preexisting wall will NOT get discarded and letting the walls protect each other as it was originally thought to do?

the only thing i ask is that we don't call it an ultra, ultra rare case anymore because if it could happen in a basement with 6 players then the chances of a, i dont know large tournament *gencon, cough* with hopefully 60 or more players then i believe at least two kids are running similar decks.

[sojomojo]

I agree its an ULRTA RARE case.. Thanks Keith

[Keith Katsikas]

I had a Magic deck like this once, where there was an Enchantment (can't remember the name) that protected all other Enchantments. Get two out and so long as your opponent cannot remove ALL enchantments without targeting, I win. This is no different, and that was far from broken for the same reson this is far from broken. Because there are a thousand and 1 ways to stop it from happening in the first place.