Cerberus

[Deleted]

I think it's a great point, but I do think that this is the type of card that should be UR, and I like the fact that it isn't "broken" which is not a requirement nor desire of URs.

Looking at Cerberus, no other creature in the game can naturally have 3 actions with 3 attack power and stand to remain on your side the whole game because of the False Loyalty. Sure he's a risk, but he creates game ending situations since your opponent can never really leave himself weak against your natural 9 point attack. Even if he blocked and lost three creatures, and now you can't disengage for 3 turns, you still took a 3 to 1 card advantage. The mechanic he provides is unique enough to warrant UR status in my book.

[JChadbourne]

Q:
Again the 3 actions with 3 strength with false loyalty is not good. Great I have 3 str and get blocked by a 1 str skeliton and Cerberus runs away like the coward he is. As for UR's not being broken, hmm well they should be a little more powerful since you can only have 1 in a deck, if you get it it should turn the tides or at least even the playing field. They cant realy make broken cards becauz when they do they either ban them or make them unplayable. If he had an ability or effect, well he has an effect but it is all negative, then he would be good but just a creature is not that good.

The card does not come into play disengaged so you cant suprize them. So he is not really a game breaker. You can put a sword of quickness on him and that would make him worthy of playing but then thats 2 cards or you can give him wings but thats at least 3 cards to use. I guess I am just seeking the reasoning behind making him an ultra rare. He does not effect tha game that drastically.

I would rather have Vorax fixed and place as an UR or rare then have a plain creature with negative abilities be an UR. He adds more flavor.... thats for a differetn thread sorry.

[Keith Katsikas]

Anything with more than one action is potentially very dangerous. Let's say your opponent has no creatures, or had used all of their actions and is left open; now let's say you have a Time Manipulator and a Vorex in play and a Cerberus in hand... Need I say more? There are ways one may seriously abuse a card like this, and if there were more than one copy allowed in a deck it may make for some pretty serious issues in tournament play.

[JChadbourne]

I dont see too many peopel play Vorex since he has been changed. Thats also a 3 card combo. As for your opponent not having any creatures, the only deck i could see that with is a wizard deck and then it is still slim.

I do see what you are talking about but I guess i dont see it having a whole lotta play.

Thanks for the responce

[Deleted]

I see where you're coming from jc, and it's a perfectly valid argument and very well spoken as well. I guess what I was trying to communicate didn't really get across too well, so I'll try once more, but we could also simply agree to disagree as well.

In my mind, for ME, I look at having URs that are special for their uniqueness, and that isn't necessarily relative to power level. Creatures don't normally have 3 actions with 3 power, so to have one is if nothing else special. Do I think Cerberus is really powerful and dangerous? No, and I don't think I ever said so. But I will tell you that he pretty easily could provide advantages that not many other creatures could.

I personally don't think that URs have to be game changing or game breaking, namely because it'll create "yugi-oh" syndrome where most of all decks will want to have these cards. Angel of Dark Flame should go in just about every deck that can play it, and while it's a great card, I think it's too great. It actually borders on broken.

So you see, I think it's fine if one UR to be really good, and another one to be relatively weak. I don't think we should relate UR to power level as much as we do, but apply it to cards that just "break norms" so to speak. Cards that are special for whatever reason. Crucifix for example is very powerful for its use, while cards like Sacred Ground are really great at changing the way the game is played altogether, potentially being really good as well. I do think that most of all ultras should have some sort of impact on the game, and in that we do agree. I just don't necessarily think they have to be the greatest most powerful cards, so in like your example of Vorex...I don't agree he should be repowered and UR bc every deck would play him. But going back to this "impact" theory of URs, I do think that if an opponent doesn't have an easy way to deal with Cerberus, he definitely be forced to change his play and play defensively against him. A card that can do that is meritable I think. But that's just IMO.

Either way, I just wanted to respond to some of your questions on the topic. It's good to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

[JChadbourne]

Q:
The arguement that you have about being in every deck, well there are cards that are like that already. I am not sure how many decks run cranial leech. Should we start banning them? Tree ent, though not as good as i thought, are in alot of decks do we ban them?

There should be cards that are good, that everyone wants to play. The issue comes when they only have one character that can play them so the deck builds start to look the same. At that point you could look at characters loyalty and playablity.

I guess that I think that every charcter should have a certain type of creature that they can play with out issue.

Wow, sorry that was way off topic...
3 actions is good but the draw back is horriable. I guess we can agree to disagree.

[Deleted]

That's fair enough, jc, and it's healthy that we are of different opinions on any given issue but yet still both like ME. I would still rather URs like Cerberus than I would Angel of Dark Flame. The latter shouldn't be so ridiculous. Again, I'm not saying Cerberus is an awesome UR...I am saying however that if I could have 3-4 in a deck like if he were common or uncommon, I would in a heartbeat and believe that it would be very powerful with the right build.

And I do agree that Cranial Leech, Sworn Defender, and others are a problem. I don't think we ban them, but I think we should strive to be involved in the MEGA team and Chambers so as to provide some influence to the design process, and pitch the idea of not releasing such universally powerful cards that could go in every deck. I hear you though on the counterpoint that not all cards should just go to one character, but at least we see then why sometimes it might be hard from a creative standpoint to always hit that "middle" nicely.

LMK if you don't know what MEGA or Chambers means. I can't say I've seen you involved in those forums, but forgive me if you have been. I think you could do a lot of good there.

[JChadbourne]

Agian Q thanks for the rebuttle. I enjoy a good healthy discussion. I am glad to hear at least one person chiming in with there imput as well.

Cerberus is an ok creature by himself. My issue is that he has false loyalty. I deal one point of damage and it runs away. I dont think that a UR should be so easily disbursed of. Mayve of Vorax with still playable he would be as well.

Q: Check your PM...

Anyone else have thoughts of this creature?

[Deleted]

I'm currently playtesting options for several decks, and in one of them I run aggro Grimus, so I use Vorex in that deck and also Cerberus. I have no fear of abandonment in terms of damage bc of Grimus of course.

Also, by deck runs such cards as Sword Defender, Quenavean, and Wandering Cleric. Any one of these cards also complement Cerberus since the opponent will now take Cerberus at full force. Usually when I've used him up 3 times, I try to sac him to something in my deck, and reanimate him with the Wanderic Cleric and go at it again.

[JChadbourne]

I think that grimus will be on his way can to the top of the heap again. I have some idead for a deck I just have to find the time to build it and play test it.

I htink with the fdew recent posts I have made peopel can gatehr what i am looking at.

Vorax and cerberus is a good combo and the crystal ball and wandering cleric, sure you take 9 damage and I disengage so you can take another 9 damage. I will sac him to discard the top card of my openents deck and draw to cards. Oh and I will do it agian next turn, just wait.

Cerberus can be playable if joined by 4-6 other creatures.

[Deleted]

And so you see that what you just said, at least I believe, is the true allure and power of this game. I think Mystical Empire is built around the premise of setting up your strategy of great power with all of your deck's cards and then engaging in allout war. I tend to stray away from the idea of single card gamebreakers, not to say that I don't like that style of play as well, just that other great ccg titles most likely have that road covered, and with ME we can be a little different. That's my 2 cents!

[JChadbourne]

Every card you play can potentualy be a game breaker. You play it to help you and thus could turn around a game.

I also think that Cerberus with ray of light could be funny as well. I hope thats the right card, at work dont have time to bounce back and forth.

All in all the card can be playable but you have to design your deck around it. Or just toss it in there for 9 damage and lose it for 3 turns...