Trade Agreement

[Keith Katsikas]

119
Trade Agreement
Item
Parchment

Trade Agreement only works on a Character.
Trade Agreement enters play Fully Engaged and does not Disengage during your Disengage Phase.
Your Character may use an Action to Disengage Trade Agreement.
Engage Trade Agreement: Trade one Creature you control for one Creature an opponent controls, or one structure for one structure, or one item for one item.
Trade remains active so long as Trade Agreement remains Fully Engaged. Any Creatures and Items in Structure are traded along with that Structure.

5
Rafal Hrynkiewicz
U

[kevmo]

Has this wording been changed from the original card on purpose or accident. Last i knew just the rarity changed.

[Deleted]

This has only confirmed to me that it is on purpose. Thank you. First I saw it in its image form at the main website, and now I see here that the wording changed too.

[kevmo]

Yes it seem s the wording has changed which would make it so trades would go back if the agreement was destroyed.

[Deleted]

I think our previous discussions on this may have brought up more issues. As Sojo was saying before, one must consider the concept of Ownership vs Control.

This is not about TA being destroyed or anything. I think we've all agreed what happens.

I was making a case before that neither TA itself or the Comprehensive Rules provide the exact explanation of what a player is supposed to do with traded objects. The term 'rade' or 'trading' doesn't appear to be defined in the rules. That being said, cards like TA must be worded to literally say what you are supposed to do. Meaning it should instead read, "Exchange control of x and y" and so forth. I think developers need to be more careful when designing cards to control the language of the game where all key words must be defined or explained on the card.

Aside from that, I have other questions. I see that if you take my School of Archery that had an Acolyte inside of it while wearing an Amulet of Life, all those items are now controlled by you. That much is provided for on the card.

But does Trade Agreement provide for what happens when you simply take a creature with an item on it, say a Jojo with a Staff of Bone on it? Would you control the Staff too? (If you didn't, you would be able to use the sacfifice effect.) It would be easy to infer that you would since that's the way it would work for the Stucture example. But my point precisely is that we shouldn't have to infer that type of thing.

I know that not every situation can be covered in one Rules Book, but I think we can try our best. I do believe that whatever can't be written in a Rule Book should be clearly defined on the card in question.

Just some thoughts.

[kevmo]

I know that when a creature is exchanged or changes contollers all items stay on the creatures and who ever controls the creature controls the item on it. Now the question i have and i think i know the answer is when a creature enters a structure it is considered out of play do any items on that creature get removed when it enters it? I think they get removed but i dont know for sure.

[sojomojo]

Great thoughts Q and Kevmo. Here is my question:

1. When a creature is taken control of by an opponent yes the item on it goes over as well. However is the item still in control of the owner (ie player owning the card)?

The reason this needs to be understood/ansered is exactly why we're having some of these questions.

Option 1: Ownership
If the owner still controls it, it doesn't mean the creature doesn't get the perks from it. IE quickness and +2. It just means that they can't move an item they don't control. It would also mean that the owner could still sack it if she or he wished. However this would also mean the owner couldn't move it because he or she couldn't force the creature to use its action to move it.

In this Senior stealing would overrule. Once stolen its gone until retrieved in some manner.

Option 2: Creature ownership
Maybe its just more simple as in whoever has it controls it. So if a creature has an item then the current controller of that creature controls even that item.

2. Leaving play and in play effects. Why would entering a building that you control and is on your playing field be considered leaving play. I see how it means lose of LOS but should this effect items on creatures? Plus what about exiting and in play effects being triggered once again.

Just some thoughts/questions
Sojo out!

[kevmo]

That is exactly why the creature is considered out of play because of for instance town square: When a pathfinder exits town square its coming into play effect triggers again hence the creature would have been out of play for that to happen. My question is does the item that was on it disappear when it enters a structure because it leaves play?

[Keith Katsikas]

Items get discarded if the creature bearing it leaves play.

Any creature, Item, or structure on your side of the table (if you will) is under your control. You cannot control any card that is in use by an opponent. Not yet at least.

[Deleted]

So when would items be in a structure that Trade Agreement would mention it on the last line of the card?

Regardless, I hope my point on language issues doesn't fall on deaf ears. As previously stated, while it makes sense that items born on traded creatures remain with that creature, that much isn't literally provided for on Trade Agreement. (It seem Humble Retreat has even more language problems.)

Furthermore, what Sojo's and my point about having control of said item is still valid. You did say, Keith, that anything on your side is controlled by you. But where does it say that in the rules? Would such a nuance need to be written? Maybe not, but then it should be on the card that if an item is on a creature, that is traded as well.

Like in the example of you taking my Jojo that had a Staff of Bone. Trade Agreement doesn't say you have control of my Staff. Unless it says that in Comprehensive Rules, (which may be there...I just didn't see it), then what gives you the right to sacrifice it if you wanted to?

[Keith Katsikas]

Items would be in a structure if the structure were a Large Wagon, or on a Terrain (coming soon)

[Deleted]

Different question...I trade my Elfwood Bow from my archer for my opponents Declaration of War on his Character...where do the items "land"?

If they land wherever they came from, say my bow lands on his Character and his Declaration lands on my archer...then my archer dies with his item. If I disengage the Trade Agreement to get my bow back, where does that land?

[Deleted]

I know it's 2 questions, but...I actually have more assuming we get through these safely.

[Keith Katsikas]

queue said:

Different question...I trade my Elfwood Bow from my archer for my opponents Declaration of War on his Character...where do the items "land"?

If they land wherever they came from, say my bow lands on his Character and his Declaration lands on my archer...then my archer dies with his item. If I disengage the Trade Agreement to get my bow back, where does that land?

You are correct about where they would go. As for what would happen if the creature died who was bearing the bow... when the trade reverts back the item becomes discarded, because its origional bearer is no longer there.

[Deleted]

That makes sense. Thank you.